OK.... So Who Has Had to Prove US Citizenship to Get a Driver's License.... ;0))

[PK...]

We got our vehicles legal, but the county website was so far behind the times, we were not aware of that requirement - even though we had current licenses taken out AFTER the proof of citizenship clause came into play......

So, that means another trip to the other side of town...

Well, we will wait until Thursday when the farmer's market is open to save on driving... (Unless they are wrong about that, as well!!!)

Have any of you run into that same requirement while renewing your driver's license?

;0))

PK

[Monicauf]

No, I haven't, but it has been a few years since I have had to renew- it needs to be renewed in two years or when I move, whichever comes first...interesting and I wonder if this is a new Federal law or State?

[Mandy]

In NJ we need to provide our original Birth Certificate and for married women, we also need to provide a certified copy of our Marriage Certificate to prove identity.

Not sure what else you would need to prove US Citizenship?

[KaliChris]

To renew? No; in fact, I always get to renew by mail, every four years, because I have a good driving record.

[SavhLaney]

We were able to renew by mail also.

[Mandy]

Kali - don't you have a photo on your Driver's License? That's one of the reasons we have to do ours in person...........they want an up to date photo to use as ID.

[Monicauf]

I have never been offered to renew by mail- but it has been quite a few years since I have had to renew and I would like to think it is because of my safe driver that they put on my license....

[kitten4762]

My son lost his wallet this weekend and will be going sometime this week to get a new driver's license and SS card, so we will see what kind of hoops the DMV makes him jump through.

[Monicauf]

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Mandy;1760695:
Kali - don't you have a photo on your Driver's License? That's one of the reasons we have to do ours in person...........they want an up to date photo to use as ID.
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That does make sense, I do like my picture- can you believe that? LOL A drivers license with a good picture...I think I look the same, just younger and I want to keep this license for as long as possible....

[PK...]

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Mandy;1760689:
In NJ we need to provide our original Birth Certificate and for married women, we also need to provide a certified copy of our Marriage Certificate to prove identity.

Not sure what else you would need to prove US Citizenship?
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That's the same requirement here in Arkansas, as it was in MO in December... It is obviously a national requirement. (Though a certified copy of the birth certificate works... As does a current passport or military discharge papers...)

I was under the impression that proving citizenship would be a one time thing, but I guess each state wants to CYA./CTA..

Thankfully, those documents were easier to find than the papers necessary for the registration of the vehicles, LOL...

But it is something to keep in mind and prepare for...

;0))

PK

[PK...]

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KaliChris;1760692:
To renew? No; in fact, I always get to renew by mail, every four years, because I have a good driving record.
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When did you last renew?

;0))

PK

[KaliChris]

I renewed mine eight months ago.

[KaliChris]

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Mandy;1760695:
Kali - don't you have a photo on your Driver's License? That's one of the reasons we have to do ours in person...........they want an up to date photo to use as ID.
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Yes, and they still let me renew by mail.

[KaliChris]

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Monicauf;1760696:
I have never been offered to renew by mail- but it has been quite a few years since I have had to renew and I would like to think it is because of my safe driver that they put on my license....
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Here it's every four years on your birthday, no matter what. But if you have a good driving record, you don't have to take the test so you can renew by mail. I haven't taken that test in years. I'd probably flunk now. lol

[PK...]

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KaliChris;1760707:
I renewed mine eight months ago.
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According to the CA requirements, proof of legal identity is only required for first time applicants...

In MO, last year, it was required for renewals as well... So each state is different...

In any event, your renewal information will spell out what is necessary... Though having a certified copy of your birth certificate and marriage license/divorce decree is a good thing to have in any event...

(I renewed mine in Dec., for 6 years... All down the drain...)

;0))

PK

[Jinh]

The law that you are referring to, PK, was enacted by some states to prevent illegal immigrants and 'others' from voting.

Provide proof or no voting (or driving I guess)...

[Mandy]

How do they take a new photo to put on your license if you renew by mail?

They don't make us take a driver's test after the first time you get your license, although the way most folks drive around here, they probably should. :/

[PK...]

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Jinh;1760714:
The law that you are referring to, PK, was enacted by some states to prevent illegal immigrants and 'others' from voting.

Provide proof or no voting (or driving I guess)...
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Actually, you can vote in MO without having a driver's license.... I first signed up in the grocery store...

In fact, wasn't that requirement struck down some years ago?

;0))

PK

[KaliChris]

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Mandy;1760715:
How do they take a new photo to put on your license if you renew by mail?

They don't make us take a driver's test after the first time you get your license, although the way most folks drive around here, they probably should. :/
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They don't. I had the same picture for years! I only got a new one because my license got misplaced, so I went in to get a new one a couple years ago.

[Jinh]

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PK...;1760716:
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Jinh;1760714:
The law that you are referring to, PK, was enacted by some states to prevent illegal immigrants and 'others' from voting.

Provide proof or no voting (or driving I guess)...
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Actually, you can vote in MO without having a driver's license.... I first signed up in the grocery store...

In fact, wasn't that requirement struck down some years ago?

;0))

PK
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That was MO, what is AK's law?

The thing is, a few states (it could be yours) enacted a law that requires proof of citizenship (a birth certificate) to get a driver's license. You need a picture ID in order to vote in those states. The ACLU filed suit against some of those states, but I don't know where it stands now.

[Mia]

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Monicauf;1760696:
I have never been offered to renew by mail- but it has been quite a few years since I have had to renew and I would like to think it is because of my safe driver that they put on my license....
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Monica, in Florida you can renew online. I did. I have a Florida Driver's License with a NYC address on it. How about that!

[KaliChris]

Actually, we can renew online now too, Mia. We can also renew our car registration online now.

[Mia]

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Mandy;1760715:
How do they take a new photo to put on your license if you renew by mail?

They don't make us take a driver's test after the first time you get your license, although the way most folks drive around here, they probably should. :/
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When I lived in Florida, prior to the expiration of the current license, the renewal form was sent in the mail.

Last time I had to renew, my friend told me to go online. I did. On my license picture I have a tan. Like that picture! Actually, I look the same.

[Monicauf]

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Mia;1760720:
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Monicauf;1760696:
I have never been offered to renew by mail- but it has been quite a few years since I have had to renew and I would like to think it is because of my safe driver that they put on my license....
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Monica, in Florida you can renew online. I did. I have a Florida Driver's License with a NYC address on it. How about that!
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Thanks Mia, I did not know that. Very cool and convenient. You did not have to get a NYC license?

[Monicauf]

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Here it's every four years on your birthday, no matter what. But if you have a good driving record, you don't have to take the test so you can renew by mail. I haven't taken that test in years. I'd probably flunk now. lol
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Here it is either every 4 or 6 years to renew, for me I have only had to renew every 6 years, I also have not taken that test in years and would also probably flunk....I need to do it online when it comes time for me to renew.

[PK...]

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Jinh;1760719:

That was MO, what is AK's law?

The thing is, a few states (it could be yours) enacted a law that requires proof of citizenship (a birth certificate) to get a driver's license. You need a picture ID in order to vote in those states. The ACLU filed suit against some of those states, but I don't know where it stands now.
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Well, I don't know what Alaska's requirements are, but this spells out the requirements for Arkansas...

A social security number and legitimate address seems to be the only requirement... (As it was in MO... And Texas...)

So unless you are advocating illegal immigrants have the right to vote, I don't understand what you are insinuating...

SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMwww.sos.arkansas.gov/elections/elections_pdfs/voter/voter_reg_ap_ar.pdf

;0))

PK

OH, and how it was in PA....

[Mia]

<<You did not have to get a NYC license?>>

Monica, shhhhh! Girl, don't say it too loud. Actually, I don't drive amongst the taxi cabs and trucks. I prefer the old people, the illegals and speed demons in Miami!

[PK...]

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Here it's every four years on your birthday, no matter what. But if you have a good driving record, you don't have to take the test so you can renew by mail. I haven't taken that test in years. I'd probably flunk now. lol
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Here it is either every 4 or 6 years to renew, for me I have only had to renew every 6 years, I also have not taken that test in years and would also probably flunk....I need to do it online when it comes time for me to renew.
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Perhaps it also depends on your age... We have to take the eye exam each time... I remember when we could renew by mail, back in the day, but in MO, they really are sticklers for proof of ID... So the last license had, not only a new photo, but an embedded photo from the previous license...

It is really quite a neat thing (unless neither of your pics are worth looking at!!!).. At least they finally became progressive since we first moved there... Your driver's license number "used to be" your SS number... LOL...

;0))

PK

[Mia]

<<Your driver's license number "used to be" your SS number... LOL...>>

PK, that was real dumb. Talk about identity fraud.

[Monicauf]

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Mia;1760727:
<<You did not have to get a NYC license?>>

Monica, shhhhh! Girl, don't say it too loud. Actually, I don't drive amongst the taxi cabs and trucks. I prefer the old people, the illegals and speed demons in Miami!
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LOL your secret is safe with me- you prefer the old people? Granted, I do drive fast- but at least I can see over the steering wheel- I was behind someone the other day and I swear I thought no one was in the car she was so short and hunched down

[Jinh]

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Jinh;1760719:

That was MO, what is AK's law?

The thing is, a few states (it could be yours) enacted a law that requires proof of citizenship (a birth certificate) to get a driver's license. You need a picture ID in order to vote in those states. The ACLU filed suit against some of those states, but I don't know where it stands now.
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Well, I don't know what Alaska's requirements are, but this spells out the requirements for Arkansas...

A social security number and legitimate address seems to be the only requirement... (As it was in MO... And Texas...)

So unless you are advocating illegal immigrants have the right to vote, I don't understand what you are insinuating...

SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMwww.sos.arkansas.gov/elections/elections_pdfs/voter/voter_reg_ap_ar.pdf

;0))

PK

OH, and how it was in PA....
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I thought you moved to Alaska! You didn't move to Alaska? I thought I was your friend...sniff : (

I'm not hot on immigration matters, but I do know that some states, (maybe not AR?) now require a birth certificate in order to get a driver's license...if you don't have one, or cannot provide one you cannot drive or vote. It affects more than immigrants, PK, it affects many people who don't have a clue where their birth certificate is, and don't know how to go about getting a copy (plus paying - they have to pay a fee).

[SavhLaney]

I think people should have to provide an approved picture ID to vote that shows that they are a legal US resident. How can anyone not know how to obtain a copy of their birth certificate?

[PK...]

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Jinh;1760732:

I thought you moved to Alaska! You didn't move to Alaska? I thought I was your friend...sniff : (

I'm not hot on immigration matters, but I do know that some states, (maybe not AR?) now require a birth certificate in order to get a driver's license...if you don't have one, or cannot provide one you cannot drive or vote. It affects more than immigrants, PK, it affects many people who don't have a clue where their birth certificate is, and don't know how to know about getting a copy (plus paying - they have to pay a fee).
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LOL, Jinh... I know... AL, AZ, AK, AR et all get mighty confusing... And MO was not that much better with all the MMMMs...

(AND, curiously, didn't this thread title and my initial post say exactly that???)

Of course the law is meant to thwart illegals from driving... That we have to suffer a bit, is just collateral damage...

But the information for getting a certified copy of your birth certificate from your state of birth is spelled out, and copies are available at a nominal fee... The only hassle is the time constraint - should you not have been aware of the need... The other problem for "even older" citizens, is that birth certificates were not always available... That becomes a bit of a sticky wicket... There was an older couple there today (when I got the clue we were in deep doodoo...) with an old photocopy of his military records (as are our birth certificates)... They were still haggling when we left... I hope they straightened things out...)

When it's all said and done, what's another buck or two... Just to get the cars and trailers legal was a hundred fifty... AND we had a year left on one vehicle and two on another...

Re the voter's registration and driver's licenses... The new law states that you can register to vote at any driver's license office... NOT that you have to have a license to register... They are making it as easy as possible to register...

That is a good thing, right??

;0))

PK wanting to move to AK for the summer... SANS mosquitos, of course!

[PK...]

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Mia;1760730:
<<Your driver's license number "used to be" your SS number... LOL...>>

PK, that was real dumb. Talk about identity fraud.
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Hah, Mia...

I think they soon got a clue... This was in 94... The beginning of the identity stealing era... I don't know just when they finally changed it... At first it was voluntary... DUH... Then for those without a similar clue, they simply changed them...

;0))

PK

[Mia]

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Monicauf;1760731:
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Mia;1760727:
<<You did not have to get a NYC license?>>

Monica, shhhhh! Girl, don't say it too loud. Actually, I don't drive amongst the taxi cabs and trucks. I prefer the old people, the illegals and speed demons in Miami!
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LOL your secret is safe with me- you prefer the old people? Granted, I do drive fast- but at least I can see over the steering wheel- I was behind someone the other day and I swear I thought no one was in the car she was so short and hunched down
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I remember them. Many times I thought the car was out by itself.

[Scoops]

They just got rid of ss#s on driver's licenses here in MA about maybe 5 or 6 years ago.

We just renew online...every 5 years...I think you can do it twice online then the third time you have to go in for a new picture.

[PK...]

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Mia;1760741:
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Monicauf;1760731:
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Mia;1760727:
<<You did not have to get a NYC license?>>

Monica, shhhhh! Girl, don't say it too loud. Actually, I don't drive amongst the taxi cabs and trucks. I prefer the old people, the illegals and speed demons in Miami!
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LOL your secret is safe with me- you prefer the old people? Granted, I do drive fast- but at least I can see over the steering wheel- I was behind someone the other day and I swear I thought no one was in the car she was so short and hunched down
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I remember them. Many times I thought the car was out by itself.
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LOL...

I am SO happy I can still see over the steering wheel...

And I have pillows....

;0))

PK

[Jinh]

LOL, what a bunch of funny posts!

<<I remember them. Many times I thought the car was out by itself.>>

Mia, that's the funniest thing I've read all day --- thanks!

[Jinh]

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Mia;1760741:
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Monicauf;1760731:
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Mia;1760727:
<<You did not have to get a NYC license?>>

Monica, shhhhh! Girl, don't say it too loud. Actually, I don't drive amongst the taxi cabs and trucks. I prefer the old people, the illegals and speed demons in Miami!
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LOL your secret is safe with me- you prefer the old people? Granted, I do drive fast- but at least I can see over the steering wheel- I was behind someone the other day and I swear I thought no one was in the car she was so short and hunched down
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I remember them. Many times I thought the car was out by itself.
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LOL...

I am SO happy I can still see over the steering wheel...

And I have pillows....

;0))

PK
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Oh god! I missed PK with her pillows! LOLOL

[PK...]

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Jinh;1760758:

Oh god! I missed PK with her pillows! LOLOL
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LOL...

I really don't get little old ladies peering under the steering wheel... That's what they make SUVs for.... (And pillows...) If you can't see the road - get off the damned thing!!!!

I have noticed more and more small transit vehicles that cater to those (not yet "we") little old ladies... AND, I have noticed they find the best grocery sales...

I have filed that away...

;0))

PK

[PK...]

Night folks...

Pleasant evening - lotsa fun...

Tomorrow,tomorrow... etc...

;0))

PK

[Jinh]

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Jinh;1760758:

Oh god! I missed PK with her pillows! LOLOL
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LOL...

I really don't get little old ladies peering under the steering wheel... That's what they make SUVs for.... (And pillows...) If you can't see the road - get off the damned thing!!!!

I have noticed more and more small transit vehicles that cater to those (not yet "we") little old ladies... AND, I have noticed they find the best grocery sales...

I have filed that away...

;0))

PK
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Snort!!!

That reminds me, I have to tell you the story of 'Aunt Helen'...it's a hooter! lol

[Jinh]

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PK...;1760760:
Night folks...

Pleasant evening - lotsa fun...

Tomorrow,tomorrow... etc...

;0))

PK
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G'night PK..

<<<Hugs>>>

[Mia]

Getting back to illegals - I thought some states do give them a driver's license. Something about it's better that they take the test then sit behind the wheel without really knowing how to drive.

Apparently, so. I found this in a 2007 article on the net.

"Only seven states – Hawaii, Maine, Michigan, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah and Washington – allow undocumented immigrants to get driver’s licenses."

[Scoops]

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Mia;1760766:
Getting back to illegals - I thought some states do give them a driver's license. Something about it's better that they take the test then sit behind the wheel without really knowing how to drive.

Apparently, so. I found this in a 2007 article on the net.

"Only seven states – Hawaii, Maine, Michigan, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah and Washington – allow undocumented immigrants to get driver’s licenses."
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I think it's better that they know too...they must be scared to go in and take the test though. I wonder how the heck they work it.

Wouldn't that be a perfect way for the immigration officials to round them up?

[Cindyloo]

I had to renew my drivers license this past April and didn't have to show anything. Handed in my old license and they took my eye exam (which was nutzo, the machine wouldn't work right..lol), they gave me my new license and I hit the dusty trail..(:

[imee2006]

When i got my citizenship in the 80's, I went and got a US passport right away. That way I don't have to keep on proving my citizenship to everyone. Whenever they say are you a citizen? I say yes, here is my passport. LOL.

When the kids were born, I went and got their passports when they were babies, even though we didn't go anywhere. My husband said, get them passports just incase.

[Jules]

Our law just changed recently....here...


If you go over 30 days past the expiration date on your license, you have to go down to the DMV and take the tests all over again. That's incentive for all of the procrastinators out there....don't let your license expire, or you'll spend a whole day down at the DMV!

[imee2006]

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Cindyloo;1760879:
I had to renew my drivers license this past April and didn't have to show anything. Handed in my old license and they took my eye exam (which was nutzo, the machine wouldn't work right..lol), they gave me my new license and I hit the dusty trail..(:
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When I moved from NJ to CA all I had to do was give them my old CA drivers license # and give back the NJ license. They took my picture, and then went home with a temporary license. They gave me the license right away because my old license didn't expire yet. A year later, the license expired, they sent me a mail renewal form, I went online and renewed, next week, I recieved it.

[Scoops]

Does everyone have their picture on their license? I seem to recall a couple of states that didn't have them.

[SavhLaney]

Really?? That is interesting. It would seem useless to me to have a license without a picture since they are used as a means of verifying age for purchasing alcohol and admitting people to clubs.

[Jules]

My picture has always been on my license.....

why wouldn't that be a mandatory requirement?

[Cindyloo]

Yes, there's always been a picture on my license, a requirement here.

Not the BEST picture in the world, but a picture no less...lol

[Scoops]

I remember going to spring break in Ft. Lauderdale when I was 18 (back in the day, lol) and meeting up with some other kids (drinking age was 18), and whatever state they were from had no photos on the license...it was a Southern State, I do know that.

They were talking about raising the drinking age in MA to 20 at the time, and we were all saying how we wished our pictures didn't have to be on the license...how easy it would be to get a fake ID.

[Jules]

That's what I was questioning.....how easy it would be for the younger crowd....

[Monicauf]

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I remember going to spring break in Ft. Lauderdale when I was 18 (back in the day, lol) and meeting up with some other kids (drinking age was 18), and whatever state they were from had no photos on the license...it was a Southern State, I do know that.

They were talking about raising the drinking age in MA to 20 at the time, and we were all saying how we wished our pictures didn't have to be on the license...how easy it would be to get a fake ID.
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It was easy 22 years ago...the legal drinking age was 21. When I was around 18 my boyfriend at the time was a graphic designer- I happened to "lose" my license, he changed the year I was born, re-laminated it, it looked perfect except for the back where you could feel the bumps where he changed the year. It worked beautifully....but I have been told that today Fl is much stricter now concerning this than years ago.... so I had two licenses, one for going out, the other the legit one.

[Skeeter]

Monica -- some of my friends did that, too....I was always too chicken....but it DID work!!! LOL

As for the citizenship question -- I am taking our daughter to get her permit in a couple of weeks -- I called to confirm what was needed and it is a social security card, and her original birth certificate (with the seal)......guess that will prove it.

I remember a few years ago I caused a commotion in Meijer when I wouldn't give them my social security number to put on my check when I wrote it.....you would have thought I stole something!!! It was right at the beginning of ID theft and I wasn't giving that out for anything.

[Jinh]

I've been debating whether to tell this story or not, but my husband and family think it's one of the funniest things they've ever heard. I think it's funny but, embarrassing...

My driver's license was due for renewal, January, 2000...I totally forgot, and it wasn't until sometime a year later that a clerk in a store pointed it out. Oops! I was positive it didn't expire until 2002. Anyway, I kept putting off taking the written test and the driving test (which you have to do after it's been that long here)...

Well, I didn't get renewed, and just took my chances. No biggie, until I found out that I had to fly to California in two weeks (January 2006)...so, I got out a red pen, and turned the 2000 into 2008...lol It worked just fine!

Well, 2008 came along, so that wasn't going to work anymore and we had to go to Tucson, for my Nephew's wedding. So, I went and got the manuals and studied up for the driving test, got every paper I could think of in order to prove I was who I said I was, and made an appointment to take the test. The man at the driver's license station asked for my old driver's license and said, "You don't have to take the test, you're license is only three weeks expired" ... I didn't say a word! I just prayed the computer system wouldn't pick it up - it didn't. So, I just paid the $40.00, got my picture taken, and left..lol

[Scoops]

LOL...now that's a pushing your luck story that turned out great!!! Someone I know actually outwitted the DMV!!!

[Skeeter]

Wow, Jinh!!! What a great story!!! You outwitted the DMV!!!!!

:)

Skeeter

[Jinh]

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Skeeter;1761326:
Wow, Jinh!!! What a great story!!! You outwitted the DMV!!!!!

:)

Skeeter
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I know, but I didn't mean to!lol

[Mia]

When I got my first driver's license in New York, it didn't have a picture on it. (Yes, cameras were invented back then!)

Back in the 80's I knew kids in Florida, my daughter's age, who made fake driver's licenses with pictures and all.

I have a DMV story involving my daughter.

Back in the 80's she couldn't get into clubs and she wouldn't buy a fake license. So she and her friend decided it would be best for my daughter to go to the DMV, pretend she was her friend, say she lost the license and they'd give her a new license with my daughter's picture on it. (That was before they asked for all types of ID.) Like that was better then buying a fake license!

Anyway, my daughter answered all the questions they asked and it was time to take the picture. The guy said that the camera was acting funny and they'd have to wait a bit.

All of a sudden, the police show up at the DMV and arrested my daughter.

Turns out that the guy taking the pictures knew the REAL person who was shown on the license and knew where she lived. He figured my daughter was an imposter and committing a crime. Of course there was no way of him knowing that the girl who owned the license was in on the whole thing.

When it finally got to court, we all showed up, including the rightful owner of the license, we explained everything to the judge, the court broke out in laughter and he ex·punged the file.

[KaliChris]

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Scoops;1760965:
Does everyone have their picture on their license? I seem to recall a couple of states that didn't have them.
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We do. I thought every state did. I work in the hotel/motel industry and I've never seen one without a picture and we get tourists from all over.

With the exception of the occasional Amish tourists, who don't have one at all and don't take pictures anyway.

[Jules]

What funny stories, you guys!

[Scoops]

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Mia;1761373:
When I got my first driver's license in New York, it didn't have a picture on it. (Yes, cameras were invented back then!)

Back in the 80's I knew kids in Florida, my daughter's age, who made fake driver's licenses with pictures and all.

I have a DMV story involving my daughter.

Back in the 80's she couldn't get into clubs and she wouldn't buy a fake license. So she and her friend decided it would be best for my daughter to go to the DMV, pretend she was her friend, say she lost the license and they'd give her a new license with my daughter's picture on it. (That was before they asked for all types of ID.) Like that was better then buying a fake license!

Anyway, my daughter answered all the questions they asked and it was time to take the picture. The guy said that the camera was acting funny and they'd have to wait a bit.

All of a sudden, the police show up at the DMV and arrested my daughter.

Turns out that the guy taking the pictures knew the REAL person who was shown on the license and knew where she lived. He figured my daughter was an imposter and committing a crime. Of course there was no way of him knowing that the girl who owned the license was in on the whole thing.

When it finally got to court, we all showed up, including the rightful owner of the license, we explained everything to the judge, the court broke out in laughter and he ex·punged the file.
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ahhhh, what we went through to get into clubs. What a coincidence and thank goodness the judge had a sense of humor!

[Jules]

I know and in hindsight....the clubs weren't really that great. You finally get into them, and it's not "taboo" anymore and you end up bored. Same old crap every where you go.

[SavhLaney]

I just used my older sister's license who, luckily, looks a lot like me. The legal age was 19 here back then but then they raised it to 21. I got grandfathered in thankfully and did not lose my privilege.

[Monicauf]

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Scoops;1761412:
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ahhhh, what we went through to get into clubs. What a coincidence and thank goodness the judge had a sense of humor!
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I shouldn't share this but what the hell......many many years ago when I was around 17 or 18 I decided to make myself bigger- a couple friends and I were going to a bar and I wanted bigger boobs so I stuffed my bra- stupid immaturity thinking- anyways, I was big enough and my shirt low enough that my ID never came into question that night and wow on the attention.....

[Scoops]

Yes...they did the grandfather thing here too...I don't see how they could let people go to clubs for 2 or 3 years and then tell them they have to wait a year before they could go again.

It was kind of funny though watching some of the less than intelligent bouncers trying to do the math to figure out who got in and who didn't during the changeover. lol