President Bush: Four more years?

[amy]

It's 3:27 AM CST and it looks like President Bush will get 270 electoral votes. On CNN > Bush: 254 Kerry: 242 On Fox News> Bush: 269 Kerry: 242 It looks like Bush will win.

[DonnaWacko]

If you go to CNN.Com, you will be able to click on the states that do not have a projected winner yet and see that Bush is definitely winning this election.

[Barbi]

When friends and relatives and acquaintances start coming home in body bags from Iraq--where the weapons of mass destruction are still missing--I hope everyone who voted for Bush will be happy. When seniors, many of them sick and disabled, start using up their savings to take long trips to Canada to buy the SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMs they need--I hope everyone who voted for Bush will be happy. When our children graduate from college with meaningful degrees and can only find service-related jobs with no benefits--I hope everyone who voted for Bush will be happy. And when the flu season arrives and everyone who couldn't get a vaccination (due to bureaucratic stupidity)is ill--I hope everyone who voted for Bush will be happy.

Would John Kerry have changed things? Who knows? But we had a chance to find out--now all we are guaranteed are four more years of what we have right now.

[DonnaWacko]

According to the American public, and the way we voted, your are out numbered in your thoughts.

[Barbi]

I know..I know. The people have spoken and I accept that--I just don't have to be happy about it!

[lina]

I'm a Democrat and would have liked to see Kerry win also. But more than anything, I am so happy to see that so many Americans felt the need, despite long lines to cast their votes.

[Barbi]

Well, Lina, I'm happy about that, too. We live in a small town with less than 3,000 voters--and yesterday morning, when I went to the polls before work, the line of voters was out the door of the town hall--and it made me feel good that so many people took this right seriously.

I like the proposal that's before the Colorado legislature right now--if a candidate receives, say, 15% of the vote and his opponent receives 85% of the vote, then the electoral votes are split the same way. This prevents an all-or-nothing awarding of a state's votes, as is seen under our current method of awarding electoral votes.

[lina]

Barbi,
Wow, that is cool. I live in rural South Carolina (Although I'm originally from California) and I'm sure a proposal like that would never be considered in this state. We are not big on change.
We just passed, eliminating the use of mini-bottles when mixing alcoholic drinks at establishments. (Only state left that was still using them)
Before I moved here, the only place I saw mini-bottles were on airplanes. :)

[Barbi]

Well, it is only a good option if all the states adopt it.

That would mean no candidate could count on taking an entire
state's electoral vote.
It would mean that candidates could not decide certain states
were not worth visiting, because every voter would make a
difference.
It would mean that all issues would have to be addressed in
every state--no more saving the "senior" issues for
Florida, the immigration issues for Texas and New
Mexico, the farming issues for the mid-west, etc.
And it would mean that the annoying news anchors could not "call"
a state ten minutes after the polls closed.

However, it only works when all states--and therefore, all
candidates--are on equal footing. So, posters, we have four years until the next national election. If you're looking for a cause, here's one that truly lets the people speak! Volunteer! Work to get this in every state!

[amy]

Barbi:
That is an interesting proposal and worth looking into. I'm all for anything that truly lets the people speak. I hope that both parties can work together to make positive changes (if that's possible).

[Barbi]

I agree, Amy. I live in Massachusetts--and because the state is always declared Democratic, we have barely seen Republican candidates over the years. I like to vote for the man, not the party--and I'd love to hear both sides in person!

[ladybug]

I like that proposal too -- makes sense to me.

[yippie9]

BUSH WON!!!

BARBARIAN AND ALL YOU LIBIESS, LOSERS, LOSERS, LOSERS. THE BODY BAGS ARE THANKS TO BILL CLINTON SO SHUT UP AND LEAVE US REAL AMERICANS ALONE AND PLEASE MOVE TO FRANCE.

[Barbi]

Well, join me. Go out and work to get this proposal on your state's ballot. Contact your senator, your representative, all your local officials. This Colorado initiative won't go anywhere if we all say we like it and then do nothing until the next election rolls around. We have to get working now, to get the kinks worked out and to make certain that any and all court challenges are in the past in four more years.

Our founding fathers devised the electoral system to suit a small population in 13 colonies. Our country, our population, our standard of living, our socio-economic practices have evolved and grown so fast that it's outdated. We need change--but we have to do it slowly, and I think this idea is on the right track. Please start talking it up with everyone NOW!

[Barbi]

Well, join me. Go out and work to get this proposal on your state's ballot. Contact your senator, your representative, all your local officials. This Colorado initiative won't go anywhere if we all say we like it and then do nothing until the next election rolls around. We have to get working now, to get the kinks worked out and to make certain that any and all court challenges are in the past in four more years.

Our founding fathers devised the electoral system to suit a small population in 13 colonies. Our country, our population, our standard of living, our socio-economic practices have evolved and grown so fast that it's outdated. We need change--but we have to do it slowly, and I think this idea is on the right track. Please start talking it up with everyone NOW!

[dogma]

If Kerry just once had stated how he was going to change things instead of just taking about what he would change maybe things would have been different. I live in a house of union workers and Bush is anti union but I will say the union people do have respect for Bush. He started this job let's hope he can finish it. I frankly had no confidence in either one. I think the fact that he has a strong VP behind him helped him win this election.

[yippie9]

BUSH WON!!!

BARBARIAN AND ALL YOU LIBIESS, LOSERS, LOSERS, LOSERS. THE BODY BAGS ARE THANKS TO BILL CLINTON SO SHUT UP AND LEAVE US REAL AMERICANS ALONE AND PLEASE MOVE TO FRANCE.

[Barbi]

yippie9--if you were for Bush, your candidate won and I congratulate you. But Bill Clinton did not go into Iraq on the premise of finding and destroying weapons of mass destruction--that was solely GWB's action. I know two families who had sons die there--and they both feel as though their child was murdered--they are proud their kids served their country, but sad that they had to go to Iraq in the first place.

If it makes you feel like a good Republican to call posters names, by all means, go on with your intelligent observations.

[lina]

I guess this is why it isn't a good idea to discuss politics.

[Rhubarb]

Barbi, seniors don't have to spend money on long trips to Canada to buy SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAM drugs, you can buy them online, or by phone. Easy to do. I order a SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAM from there and it saves me over $100.00 each time I order. Big difference.

[Qvsee]

If a democratic President had been in office and the economy had slipped so badly, and we were in war, and there were lies told, and deals made, don't think for one minute that the Republicans would have made an example. He would have been voted out of office. President Clinton was hounded the entire time he was President for much less than this President has done...( Some moral mis conduct yes) But, the world was better off when he was in office. Economy was better, oil prices were better, US better thought of by foreign countries, etc...I just can't see what the people see in Bush..Owning a baseball team, being a millionaire oil man and becoming governor are hardly qualifications. I think the average American is being left behind by those in big business, those with power and money and those who pretend to have power and money. I work for the title one program, a federal program started by the democrats to help chidren in schools. My salary was cut this year. Everyone used to always blame Congress (Of course, it was a democrat congress.) Now that Repulicans control that, they aren't crying about congress anymore....I think we should go by popular vote period and count everyone. Too much lately turning people away at poles...Sounds fishy....Bush makes a trip to Ohio and Ohio has conflicts at poles......Makes you wonder.

[Qvsee]

One of our close friends for thirty years has been former Congressman from Indiana, Andy Jacobs Jr. He is about as conservative a democrat as you will find. Much like, Evan Bayh , who is in Congress now. Andy tried many years to change the Electoral College and go to Popular Vote but Conservative traditionalists voted it down...It makes people feel like there is no use voting if they live in a Democrat state or a predominately Republican State because their vote basically doesn't count for President. We are losing our democratic freedoms by not counting everyone's vote. Perhaps each state could , like delegates to a convention, have part of their Electoral Votes go to one candidate, based on total vote withing that state. And, the other candidate could get partial Electoral Votes, based on his percentage of votes cast within that State...It is time to make some changes.......

[yippie9]

911 was the result of clinton's foreign policy of not taking any action, unless it was on the eve of his impeachment or his adultery, against islamic terrorists. kerry would have turned this country into a paper tiger only it would have been a paper kitten. enough of the politics but certain people posted the most insulting and derogatory statements about president bush on this site. let's face it the real reason the entertainment and news media hates president bush is beacuse he is a christian. think about it.

[Barbi]

John Kerry has made no secret of the fact that he is a practicing Roman Catholic. That's not Christian??

[yippie9]

actions speak louder than words. he would not say he believed in jesus christ when asked,flip flop said he beleived in god. also the big gay platform in the democratic party. i don't care what they do behind closed doors but when the gay lifestyle is made public and accessible to children, well thats an abomination.

[Barbi]

I agree with you as far as making the gay lifestyle available to children (a horrible thought)--but let's not lose sight of two facts: One, the president cannot pass legislation himself, no matter what his position and two, if Kerry were elected, he would be trying to pass a lot of legislation through a Republican Congress. So, no one was ever really in danger.

[puddy]

#1 If John Kerry is a practicing Catholic, why is he divorced from his first wife?

#2 WHAT was Kerry's PLAN? All I ever saw was him addressing whatever topic made headlines on a particilar day. No plan at all. And people criticize Bush for not having a plan.

#3 When 9/11 happened, A LOT of people said, "Thank you, Bill Clinton." That was BEFORE there was anything about George Bush to criticize. We had not gone to war yet, remember?

#4 Barbi - I'm sorry for the deaths you referred to. Just remember, those solders JOINED the service, they were not DRAFTED, ok?

#5 I got a flu shot and I'm in Florida. I worked hard to track one down, but I found a place. Just like America, if you work hard enough, you will be rewarded.

#6 As for Bush going to Ohio and Ohio having problems at the polls...what the hell was John Kerry doing at the Toledo Express Airport in the wee hours of the morning of election day? Fixing the problem?

These are just questions that I would like answered, no flaming is necessary. Enlighten me.

[beaglelvr]

Well said Puddy! You've made valid points and will receive no flaming from me. :)

[puddy]

Thanks, Beag!

[amber]

Barbi-hey how's it going, i know i was upset as well, and then I thought to myself?

What would kerry have done?


what did kerry stand for?

Do we know?


Don't blame the american people for choosing bush (who i disagree with on his opinions) They have No clue what the hell kerry is talking about.


I relized it after 10 minutes of casting my vote,

Kerry was way to wishy washy,


I knew bush would win, based on that fact.

We are at war, For nothing

But bush is giving us a plan

Kerry wasnt giving shit

He went one way, and then the other


he confused the hell out of voters

Were many just didnt vote, or went for bush again, cause they figured

Kerry is no matter


and people figure Hey aleast in 2008 will get two new people.


I predicted bush would win the election

I was right

My next prediction

2008 Hillary clinton will win!

[Curvigirl]

I feel very badly for all of us--those who voted for Bush, and those who didn't. A lot of very good people aren't even aware of what chumps they've been taken for. Good luck to us all. We're going to need it.

[Palmetto17]

Curvigirl, you are right on the money. This is a sad day. Thank you for your perspective. :(

[amber]

curvigirl

Excellent post


But hang on sweeti

We only have four more years


That's it, just four more years


To me it's seem's like yesturday, bush was first accepted into office


and hey next election BUSH WILL BE GONE FOR GOOD!


Trust me, he will be the most hated man in america, but i don't know how bad he can get after his first four years

I guess will have to see won't we...

[puddy]

Appaarently no one is going to enlighten me. Oh, well. If you believe so strongly...

[Palmetto17]

I'll be happy to clarify my post, puddy.

I think anytime that a country... or an organization... or a home... is divided as we are now, it's a sad day. I am tender-hearted. Sorry. I think I speak for a lot of folks who aren't solidly behind the work of either man. Regardless of the outcome of the election, it's not a necessarily happy day. This divide has been a long time in the making, and I really don't know one day, one election, could help.

As for your enlightenment, I don't think I can provide it. You asked questions that I don't have answers to. Perhaps you can try SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMwww.johnkerry.com if you are truly seeking answers.

I support our President. That's the bottom line.

[lancaster]

You will not be able to continue to get meds from Canada.
Bush said it will be illegal. Also, he is strongarming
the Canadian govt. I will have no place to live because
Bush is getting rid of Section 8 subsidies--I am disabled
and paid into this fund for twenty five years. His first
wife is not Catholic and he divorced her at her insistence--
he did stay with her through many years of her mental
illness. She wrote about this in a book on help for the
mentally ill. Her brother was and is Kerry's best friend
and worked with him on his campaign. Kerry listed many
issues and how he would address them--this campaign was
decided on "moral issues." The electoral college still has
some merits but needs an overhaul. When there were 13 colonies
some were so sparsely populated that it simply wouldn't have
paid for those in rural areas to vote. If there is a tie in
the electoral college, the congress decides. If we keep pouring
troops into Iraq, there will have to be a draft.

[puddy]

I have tried Kerry's website. No go for me. The website and what I heard him actually say - I can't fit it together.

Amber - Your posts are some of the most intelligent on here.

[Palmetto17]

Ouch.

[lisa roger]

In view of rhe turnout yesterday, how dould anyone possibly think hillary would EVER be voted in! Dream on! It'll never happen. People are gettinng tired of the left wing hangers on like moore, sores, al franken etc...

[yippie9]

once again the liberals go out of their way to prove their ignorance of the American political system, in case you haven't heard this is a democratic republic not a european soSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMt society. America experimented with soSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMtic communities in the 1820's - 1840"s and they all failed.

Amber would you really want a lesbian soSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMt in the whitehouse??

[Rae]

Well said Barbi.. and to all all of you who voted for Bush.. SHAME ON YOU! If you truly look at the past four years and are a true American.. what choice was there? It was clear to me. Listen to all of Kerry's words. If you can still feel good about this horrible outcome.. then you were not paying attention. Wake up America!! It has been bad and will only get worse. Time will tell. Out servicemen elisted for this?? The majority are national guardsmens. Who are being tragically taken advantage of. Watch the news and try to understand. Bush has not a clue on how to run this country. And his VP? Another joke. Yet the majority believes in him? I don't undrstand. God protect us in the next four years. For those who voted for Bush.. see you at MeDonalds flipping burgers. Our good paying jobs are going overseas leaving us nothing more than service jobs which pay minimal wages. In the future that will be a honorable job according to Bush. Hope that will keep your homes and your families fed.

[Barbi]

National Guards were sent to Iraq--they did not have a choice. And, now when their term of service is up, they are not allowed to leave because our Commander-in-Chief did not plan well and does not have enough troops on the ground. I admit that I did not vote for Bush, and one of the reasons why is that he surrounds himself with very narrow-minded and distasteful (to my way of thinking) people: Donald Rumsfeld, John Ashcroft, Condoleezza ("How much longer shall I kiss your butt, sir?") Rice, etc. I don't think George W. Bush is an incompetent or evil man--I just think that many in his cabinet and many who surround him give him bad advice, which he then relies on.

I admit, John Kerry wasn't clear on some of his points--but I didn't see him as any worse that Bush, and of course, if all of GWB's reforms are so great, he's had four years--why aren't they already in place?

[Curvigirl]

Rae's right--time will tell. We can all debate this until we're blue in the face, but this election is over and now we move on. (Literally--for more information, check out MoveOn.org.)

[yucko]

It's my understanding that New Hampshire or Maine allows the it's electoral delegates to split. If so, is this not enough of a precedent? Why would one state be allowed to do so and not the others?

Not that it would have changed this outcome, but I appreciate the remarks about changing the way things are done, in light of our changes since the system was established and also the consequences of politicians having to address all the people, instead of making strategic choices about how to spend (and flood states like Ohio, Wisconsin, Forida, etc.) while barely visiting others.

For Democrats, the strategy has to be one of mitigating the effects of this presidency, specificially, to fight strongly against judicial appointments that will overturn or setback the rights women and minorities and underpriviledged have won in the past two hundred years.

[beekeeper]

Let's see ... all those who expect to see Social Security when they get older, stand up. Now, all those who think their kids are going to be able, or even willing to take care of them at that time, stand up. I'm pretty sure there isn't anybody standing ... very sad! I say save your pennies NOW!

These "strong moral values" that we are forced to listen to are coming from the same people that say it's ok to discriminate against those who truly love each other, as THEY themselves make a mockery of marriage by the simple fact of 1 out every 2 marriages end in divorce. These are the men and women that are "forced" to be double income families in order to pay for the house, 2 SUV's, motor home, boat, yearly vacation and health SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAM they can't afford, and meanwhile their children are being baby sat by sexually explicit and violent video games/television programming and the WWW. STRONG MORAL VALUES ... or greed?

Hey Rae ... maybe we WILL be seeing you at Mickey D's!

[J.R.]

(Barbi)

When friends and relatives and acquaintances start coming home in body bags from Iraq--where the weapons of mass destruction are still missing--I hope everyone who voted for Bush will be happy.

(J.R.)

You mean people died in a war?!??! Imagine that.

(Barbi)

When seniors, many of them sick and disabled, start using up their savings to take long trips to Canada to buy the SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMs they need--I hope everyone who voted for Bush will be happy.

(J.R.)

You're pushing a soSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMt system over ours?!?!? And how many soSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMt systems have been successful?

(Barbi)

When our children graduate from college with meaningful degrees and can only find service-related jobs with no benefits--I hope everyone who voted for Bush will be happy.

(J.R.)

Entreprenuership. Make your own job. Thousands do it every day.

(Barbi)

And when the flu season arrives and everyone who couldn't get a vaccination (due to bureaucratic stupidity)is ill--I hope everyone who voted for Bush will be happy.

(J.R.)

Clinton's fault. He took the profit out of it. See, soSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMm doesn't work.

(Barbi)

Would John Kerry have changed things?

(J.R.)

Sure, but not for the better.

(Barbi)

Who knows? But we had a chance to find out--now all we are guaranteed are four more years of what we have right now.

(J.R.)

Yep. A man who cut taxes. Stood tall and lead our country during 911. Freed Afghanistan and brought to justice many of those who attacked out country. Freed Iraq and brought to justice an evil dictator who murdered, raped, and tortured his own people. A man who continues to lead the fight against terrorism around the world and bring freedom to those yearn for liberty.

[beekeeper]

I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation, under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all ...

Well, come on ... let's be honest ...

... with Liberty and justice for those who are rich, white, heterosexual and Republican!

[DonnaWacko]

"Amber - Your posts are some of the most intelligent on here"

Hilarious Puddy, thanks for the laugh.

[amber]

Lisa rogers
In view of rhe turnout yesterday, how dould anyone possibly think hillary would EVER be voted in! Dream on! It'll never happen. People are gettinng tired of the left wing hangers on like moore, sores, al franken etc...


(Amber)
Simple if bill clinton ran for president right now, he would win by a lanslide.

Hillary won new york by a landslide


Bush didnt win by landslide


he didnt win popular vote in 2000


Trust me, i know these thing's


Say whatever you want about the clintons but their not stupid people

They know how to talk to the american people

Regardless if you want to admit it or not.


(Donna wacko)
"Amber - Your posts are some of the most intelligent on here"

Hilarious Puddy, thanks for the laugh.

(Amber)
Donna wacko -
This is really PATHETIC....calling me out and crying,"Whaaaaa,pleeeeaaaaase PLAY
WITH ME!"
I KNOW you miss me,but this is a little embarassing!(Stars and their stalkers)
I don't respond because you are psycotic,you make NO sense,and ~I~ have a life!!!
Now,piss off FLAKE...I don't ~play~ with ignorance beyond recognition!

[Beanie]

I usually don't jump in on political discussion...it can be so dangerous. And, I truly respect everyone's opinion. But, all of you who voted for Bush --- would you be willing to send your sons and daughters over to Iraq to fight? If you can answer "yes" to that question, then I have great respect for you. I couldn't give my vote to Bush because I AM NOT WILLING to send my son over there to fight. I couldn't vote for Bush out of respect for the moms and dads who have children over there (or who have lost there children over there). A vote for Bush was a vote for the Bush's war. I can't stand behind the war with my flesh and blood (my children). :(

[yippie9]

why don't you dumb liberal broads post your shit on a politcal message board and get over the fact that your political views are out of step with america. you just keep making bigger asses out yourselves soon you won't be able to wedge your massive asses into those breezies.

[Beanie]

Yippie -- Thank you for your note. I appreciate your setting me straight. When will you finish your tour of duty in Iraq?

[amber]

Beanie that was great point you made i love it.


I wonder what their answers will be.


I also think it's funny these republicans bitch about welfare, yet their prolife.


Don't bitch about welfare, all those 15 and 16 year old girls who get pregnant, have no other choice then to live on welfare now.


You all can't bitch about welfare no more once you voted for bush.

[Rae]

Barbi, your first posting on this issue was right on the money. I would love to send it on to others who do not participate on this website. I of course will not do this without your consent. I believe those words should be read by many.. not just the few here. Would you give your permission? Thank you. I only wish more of us would have stood by Kerry and got Bush voted out of office. Now we will never know what could have been.. what should have been. I can only hope that Bush understands that people in our country and those people in other countries are unhappy with his past actions and will make a change for the better for our country. The people at the polls told a story.. one I hope he listens to. Keep our jobs is America. Make SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAM affordable to everyone. Take care of our young and our old.
Bring our men home. We need to get respect back into the United States of America. God Bless America.

[yucko]

Just wanted to point out that Bush won by the narrowest margin in history of a an incumbent president. In the states he won, some 43 percent voted for Kerry.

His talk of "political capital" and others claiming a "mandate" is really stretching it.

[Marie02]

test

[jim]

HEY, AMBER, BITCH!

IF STUPID WHORES LIKE YOU KEPT THEIR LEGS TOGETHER TO BEGIN WITH, WELFARE WOULD NOT BE NECESSARY! DO YOU UNDERSTAND, IDIOT!

[yucko]

I have to correct my own post. The narrowest margin for a sitting president since Woodrow Wilson.

[Curvigirl]

Check out SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMmichaelmoore.com/. Be sure to scroll all the way to the end.

[amber]

I will go and check that out



Thank's for the info

[yippie9]

only an ignorant bitch would believe what fat fag moore has to say. oh wait a minute i forgot who referenced his site.

[amber]

Excellent site


I loved it


Showing the murder for what he is!

[Curvigirl]

Thank you, yippie, for your always thought-provoking and insightful commentary. You are a credit to your cause.

[Beanie]

Yippie -- I'm so impressed with your messages -- they're insightful, thought-provoking, inspirational and so American. Are you George W's ghost writer?

[yippie9]

Diary Bombshell: Kerry Met With Terrorists

In a bombshell development that could have turned President Bush's victory into a landslide had it come out before the election, John Kerry wrote in his Vietnam War diary that he met with "terrorists" in Paris - a revelation that "flabbergasted" his running mate, John Edwards.

All during the campaign, Kerry had adamantly refused to release his diary, claiming that he'd given exclusive rights to use the document to his biographer, Douglas Brinkely. But when Brinkley told reporters that wasn't true, Kerry still declined to make the diary public. Now we know why.

According to Newsweek magazine, "Kerry's diary included mention of a meeting with some North Vietnamese terrorists in Paris."

Though Kerry's sit-down with North Vietnamese representatives had been reported late in the campaign, his description of them as "terrorists" would have set off smoke alarms.

The prospect that the top Democrat was willing to negotiate with "terrorists" 35 years ago would undoubtedly have cemented the Bush campaign's central message on Kerry: Anyone who would negotiate with terrorists can't be trusted with U.S. national security in a post-9/11 world.

John Edwards was "flabbergasted" by the news, Newsweek said. He recognized immediately how important it was to keep Kerry's terrorist confab secret.

"Let me get this straight," he told campaign staffers who delivered the shocker. "He met with terrorists? Oh, that's good."

[Curvigirl]

Why yippie, you impress me. You do actually know how to capitalize and punctuate, and you do show some aptitude for creative writing.

You are a crafty little booger, aren't you?

[Beanie]

At least Yippie knows how to use the copy and paste keys on his computer.

[amber]

lol


it's about time someone put's the troll in his place!

[jim]

Scamber,

It is about time you described yourself and what YOU NEED,you bitch! You are a stupid bitch-troll that needs to be put in its place, lol!You finally admitted that! rofl!

[Curvigirl]

Yippie: Thanks for the PM, but if you feel the need to address me I'd really rather you used this public forum.

By the way, the last time I was called the "C" word was...um...gee, I actually don't think I've ever been called that before. Once again, your eloquence underwhelms me.

[yippie9]

ah yes the lesbian crowd has infested this message board.

[yippie9]

Clinton to Democrats: Stop Whining

NEW YORK - Former President Clinton has a message for Democrats inconsolable after President Bush's re-election: Buck up. It's not that bad. You need to improve your image.

"This election presents a great opportunity for President Bush and a great opportunity for Democrats, and the two are not necessarily in conflict," Clinton said in his first public remarks since Democratic Sen. John Kerry's defeat on Tuesday.

The last two-term Democratic president said the party needs to rework its image and it would be "a mistake for our party to sit around and ... whine about this and that or the other thing."

Just weeks after major heart surgery, Clinton joined Kerry at a campaign appearance in Philadelphia last week and made appearances on the Democrat's behalf in several states, including Florida, New Mexico and Arkansas.

In his speech Friday to the Urban Land Institute, Clinton attributed Kerry's loss to the Democrats' failure to counter how Republicans portrayed them to rural and small-town voters.

"If we let people believe that our party doesn't believe in faith and family, doesn't believe in work and freedom, that's our fault," he said.

Democrats "need a clear national message and they have to do this without one big advantage the Republicans have, which is they won't have a theological message that basically paints the other guy as evil."

Clinton gave Bush and the Republicans credit for the election victory.

"The Republicans had a clear message, a good messenger, great organization and great strategy," he said. "The Republicans did a better job of turning out those who were already registered who hadn't voted" as well as bringing out their base.

Clinton said Bush should use his second four years to move the United States toward an economy less dependent on foreign oil, a move that would shift the balance of power in the Middle East.

Clinton also said a peace agreement between the Israelis and the Palestinians would take enormous steam out of Islamic fundamentalist terrorism worldwide

[YippiesLuv]

Yippie, my darling...

I am writing this to let you know that our middle son, Kevin, was finally able to marry his partner, Bill in San Francisco this weekend. Maybe you and I can finally seal our partnership too, so we can get tax breaks, and health benefits that all other spouses are able to receive. I'm also happy to tell you that our daughter, Rose Moon, is enjoying her volunteer work at Planned Parenthood. I finally took the Kerry-Edwards sticker off our car, and replaced it with a "friends don't let friends vote Republican" sticker.

Our oldest son Tom, has just E-mailed me that he will have to serve another year over in Iraq due to the shortage of military troops as a result of the Bush cutbacks in military spending. Gee, I never thought Tom being in the National Guard would result in him spending 2 years in Iraq.

Oh, I hate to tell you, but Aunt Lil lost her job. That makes 6 people in the immediate family unemployed as of today. Aunt Lily's company has outsourced her job to India. Sad to say that her company will still continue to receive the big tax breaks anyway.

More bad news from here is that gas is up to over $3.00 a gallon, and the price will continue to rise; after all, we want to make sure the Bush family continues to reap giant revenues from it's Middle-East investments. I think it's so important to support out president and his family every way we can, even if it means taking money out of our own pockets.

I hope you will get off this bulletin board and come home soon Snookums.

Your loving partner, Bobbie

[yippie9]

this is a sick bitch

[YippiesLuv]

Yes darling, and you like me that way! But, I thought that was our sick little secret!

[YippiesLuv]

.

[YippiesLuv]

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[DonnaWacko]

I belive we can think Mr. Clinton for the military cut backs.

[Curvigirl]

That's true. President Bush LOVES to spend money on the military. No cutbacks on his watch. Mr. Clinton on the other hand, having no plan to invade anybody, thought it could do more good elsewhere. Go figure.

[puddy]

Bush had to win. If Kerry won, it would mess up Hillary in '08.

[puddy]

Do really think health care, flu shots, job creation, etc. matter if the building you work in is blown up? These people want to kill us. Does anyone get it? NOTHING else matters right now. Also, I was just wondering, with Veteran's Day coming - were we wrong when we fought Hitler? The things he did were just as bad, if not worse than Saddam and he wanted to conquer the entire world, not just part of Europe. Has anyone ever heard 'The Americans'? It's a Gordon Sinclair speech read by a disc jockey from CKLW (Windsor/Detroit) named Byron McGregor. Go to www.mcvaymedia.com to download the MP3. Pay attention to how OLD it is. Listen to it and tell me, what happened to the AMERICAN spirit? We should have that pride in our country, REGARDLESS of who is in the White House. I also read an article on the internet that stated a website on Canadian immigration got thousands of hits right after the election results. Well, GOOD BYE and Thank You for going. A few jobs will open up now.

[Curvigirl]

"These people want to kill us. Does anyone get it?"

With what? The weapons of mass destruction they didn't even have?

9/11 was engineered and executed by Osama bin Laden. Not Saddam Hussein. Different guy.

Bush's own commission says there's no connection between the two.

52% of the American public has been sold on this war. I guess it makes it easier for some to sleep at night. I wouldn't know.

Yes, we have removed an oppressor from power. Too bad so many innocent citizens of Iraq have had to die at our hands before they had a chance to savor their "freedom." Not to mention the number of U.S. troops who have been sacrificed for the cause.

Yet we're still worried about the dark menace who may blow up our bridges, landmarks, skyscrapers. If the real villain is already in custody, why do we still feel the threat?

[puddy]

So, you missed the comparison to Hitler I see. That's what Americans do, Curvi, we help other countries. Like the oil in Iraq - what good is the oil if they can't SELL it? How do you think that country will prosper? It's all they have to sell and there are plenty of countries to buy it, U.S. included. As for WMD's, what was the shit Saddam used his own people to test? Halloween candy? No, deadly gas. You must be telling me that his actions are ok, as long as it doesn't effect the U.S. There are psychos over there, everywhere, and they want to kill you. Guess what, our opinions don't matter when we're dead. Get it? Osama is another issue and I think he will be dealt with in time. Saddam needed to go and we are just the country to do it, Bush or no Bush, WMD's or no WMD's. Just the way women are treated is enough to make me puke. Not to mention the torture and mass graves. Sure, people are going to die, that's why it's called war and it's an ugly site. Ask a vet all about it.

[Curvigirl]

Didn't miss the reference to Hitler. Missed the opportunity to make a point that there have been many others between Hitler and Saddam Hussein who have been privileged to have the U.S. look the other way while they committed their own atrocities.

The point I was trying to make is that if you're going to bring up terrorism, "these people want to kill us," as in attacks on OUR soil, you're muddying the waters to make Iraq part of that equation.

Look, we can keep going around and around but the bottom line is you see red, I see blue. I will admit the beauty of our system is that I can disagree with you, and the current administration, and live to tell the tale. I know that that doesn't happen everywhere. But I also know that in time that freedom can be destroyed. And right now we're getting uncomfortably close to crossing what looks to me to be a very scary line.

Peace.

[puddy]

Oh, I agree, it's a super scary line to cross. There are so many people (here and there!) that do things based on religion, beliefs, etc. This country has things it should be ashamed of, for sure. Right now, especially with Arafat dying, I think we need to be over there, basically kicking ass all over the place. I still remember an old Kung Fu episode where the line was, "The ememy of my enemy is my friend" and it's never been more true.

[yippie9]

this is for you libbies

How Michael Moore got Bush elected
By JAY AMBROSE
Guest Commentary
Telephone Credit Union

GEORGE W. BUSH received more votes in Tuesday’s election than any Presidential contender in the history of the United States, and I would like to believe Michael Moore was partly responsible.

Here, after all, was not simply a film director whose “Fahrenheit 9/11” emitted a vile propagandistic stink, indicating something contemptible in the mindset of its creator, but someone who went trotting about Europe telling the adulatory press that Americans “are possibly the dumbest people on the planet.”

While some Europeans may still be slapping their thighs at such cleverness, it should not be surprising that some Americans may have taken offense. They may have figured, for starters, that they have the mental edge over someone whose anti-Bush film neglected to distinguish facts from malicious fantasy, but there is a much bigger point.

It is that literally millions of the hard-working, responsible, decent citizens of this nation just may have had it up to their eyebrows with those Hollywood types and others who disdain their intelligence, mock their religion, dismiss their values, deprecate their lifestyles and disparage their social contributions.

These citizens may suppose their lives add up to at least as much as the lives of celebrities taking time from their divorce schedules to issue morally superior pronouncements about issues they don’t understand.

They may further suppose they have a better grasp of everyday political truths than the ultra-privileged who don’t have to deal with such problems as how to pay their monthly bills when unexpected expenses leap out of nowhere and grab their wallets.

Yes, yes, celebrities have every right in the world to be active in politics, and even should be: Leave politics to the politicians and democracy will race from the room. And no, no, not every celebrity can be squeezed into some narrowly conceived stereotype; many are thoughtful, respectful and humble, I would guess, and I would also guess that many are as far from debauched as the average denizen of small-town America.

What I would like to stress is that a certain belittling, Hollywood-fostered stereotype of small-town, rural and suburban Americans — and especially the stereotype of religious Southern and Midwestern Americans of a conservative disposition — is itself an absurdity overlooking the strength they lend this country.

These Americans are a mix of many things, of course, and I don’t want to replace one stereotype of small-mindedness and dim-witted intolerance with another that overreaches and is too sweeping; any large grouping will include some number of the stupid and the morally careless, even the downright criminal, along with the brilliant and morally upright, even the downright saintly.

It seems to me, however, a safe, supportable generalization to say that these Americans mainly do a good job of raising their children, that they are mostly productive in their jobs, that they are by and large generous in their giving to charity, that their word is reliable and that they are more often than not kind to those they encounter.

I take particular umbrage at the caricature some paint of the religious. When you listen to someone like the TV comedian Bill Maher ridicule Christianity, for instance, you wonder whether he has any notion at all of tenets residing at the heart of the faith: that we can experience forgiveness if we ourselves first forgive, that we can find redemption even when our lives are in tatters, that nothing less is demanded of us in our dealings with others than sacrificial love. This is the stuff of satire?

Another proposition of the faith is that confession is good for the soul, and I have to confess that I am not in a very forgiving mood. It delights me to suppose that Bush-despising Hollywood lefties may actually have aided his cause in their excessive rhetoric (check out actor Richard Dreyfus’s speeches someday) or their middle class-alienating vulgarities (see comedienne Whoopi Goldberg’s jokes about the President).

I get special joy — I must get over this — in contemplating the hell Michael Moore might go through if he dwelled on the possibility that he contributed to the Bush victory by so unmistakably signaling his elitist attitudes.

[grateful]

Great article filled with good points. I'm ashamed to admit it. But, I think conservatives can thank Moore for this election result and the fact that not enough people could relate to Senator Kerry, a Northeastern liberal.

I saw Fahrenheit 9/11 and that someone would call that a documentary is shameful. It was good as a comedy though with his careful omissions and utter lacking of another perspective typical of this previous movies.

I actually live in Hollywood and as you can expect I'm in the minority on my views here. I'm really sick of the condescending attitude of the liberal elite and progressives out here.

I took that attitude with me too to when I filled out my absentee ballot. But, unfortunately for me, Boxer is still senator.

[YippiesLuv]

For all you "non-libbies":

I would tell you to go to hell, but since all of us are already there for the next 4 years, it would be pointless.

Isn't it sad that you think it was what Michael Moore said that got Bush elected, and not what Bush said???

[lancaster]

Again, Iraq had no connection to Osama Bin Laden.
But now we've created a new breeding ground for terrorists.
I do not feel safer because of the war in Iraq--I'd
feel safer if we used those billions for homeland
security. Hitler had the greatest army and airforce
in the world and had occupied much of Europe before
we went in. Iraq had no army to speak of. Saddam Hussein
might be the devil, but we have not gone after the
equally cruel leaders around the world. Will those
who voted for Bush for moral reasons be safer because
there isn't a lesbian couple living next door to them?
See "Bush's Brain"--Carl Rove could have gotten a brick
wall elected.

[Barbi]

Rae, of course you can share my post with others--and thanks for getting the word out!

And, today I have another fear--John Ashcroft has resigned (yea!!!) and, in his place, it is rumored (on CNN and MSNBC) that Gov. George Pataki of New York State will take his place. I live in Massachusetts, just 15 minutes from the NY border, and as a result, we get all the New York television channels. George Pataki has done nothing impressive in all his years as governor. The late budgets and executive-legislative wrangling are the subject of late-night TV skits, and Pataki is famous (or infamous) for putting his political buddies in high posts, regardless of whether or not they are qualified. Four more years with Bush may mean four years of George Pataki--and for those of you who are unfamiliar with the governor--just wait!

I hope all you Ohio voters are happy...

[yippie9]

For the ignorant bitches who think our president is a murderer and we have no business in Iraq:

Iraq Troops Find 'Hostage Slaughterhouses'

NEAR FALLUJAH, Iraq - Iraqi troops have found "hostage slaughterhouses" in Fallujah where foreign captives were held and killed, the commander of Iraqi forces in the city said Wednesday.

Troops found CDs and records of people taken captive in houses in the northern part of Fallujah, Maj. Gen. Abdul Qader Mohammed Jassem Mohan told reporters.

"We have found hostage slaughterhouses in Fallujah that were used by these people and the black clothing that they used to wear to identify themselves, hundreds of CDs and whole records with names of hostages," the general said at a military camp near Fallujah.

He was unsure if the hostage records included the names of any of the at least nine foreigners still in the hands of kidnappers — most notably, British aid worker Margaret Hassan, French journalists Christian Chesnot and Georges Malbrunot and an unidentified American worker for a Saudi company.

[yippie9]

The Osama-Saddam Connection Proved

DefenseWatch

Part of the Bush administration's justification for going to war against Iraq was its insistence that there was a real and dangerous connection between Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein.

This connection has been roundly denounced by Bush's political opponents as nothing more than lies and half-truths designed to pave the way to a war that somehow benefited the rich and corporate America at the expense of the common people. Because the Bush administration has been reluctant to reveal its sources for this belief, opponents have used this reluctance as evidence that such information really did not exist. Since the coalition forces have not yet found a nuclear weapons cache or an actual storage site for biological weapons, the existence of this connection has become an increasingly important issue. Bush administration opponents appear unwilling to accept the evidence of mobile manufacturing laboratories as proof of the existence of biological weapons, and they have pointed with derision at administration claims of a dangerous connection between Osama and Saddam.

A recent story in The Weekly Standard (Nov. 24, 2003), has given administration opponents serious cause for reflection. Standard reporter Stephen Hayes wrote under the title, "Case Closed," about a secret memo prepared for Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Feith. In response to questions put to him in October by Senate Intelligence Panel members Sen. Pat Roberts, R-KS, and Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-WV, Feith forwarded them the memo. From there it found its way into Hayes's hands.

I have not yet seen the actual memo, but have listened to an in-depth interview with Hayes by Shawn Hannity of Fox News and the Hannity Radio Talk Show, and have seen a detailed summary compiled by Frank J. Gaffney Jr., who is president for the non-profit Center for Security Policy, a Washington, D.C. think-tank.

As reported by Gaffney in The Washington Times and in several Web publications, Hayes detailed fifty items that clearly establish a long-time collaboration between Osama and Saddam. According to Hayes, these fifty items are only the tip of an iceberg that will be revealed more clearly as the Pentagon continues to examine the large cache of documents obtained from the Saddam regime following its downfall last April. According to Gaffney, some of these collaborations are:

* Top Iraqi intelligence officials and other trusted representatives of Saddam Hussein met repeatedly with bin Laden and his subordinates.
* Iraq provided safe havens, money, weapons, and fraudulent Iraqi and Syrian passports to al Qaeda.
* Iraq provided training in the manufacture and use of sophisticated explosives. Bin Laden specifically requested that Iraqi intelligence's premier explosives maker, Brig. Gen. Salim al-Ahmed, who was especially skilled in making car bombs, remain with him in Sudan. The Iraqi intelligence chief instructed Salim to remain in Sudan with bin Laden as long as required.
* A Malaysia-based Iraqi national, Ahmed Hikmat Shakir, secured a job at the airport in Kuala Lumpur with help from the Iraqi Embassy in Malaysia. He then facilitated the movement of Khalid al Midhar and Nawaq al Hamzi, two of the 9/11 hijackers, through passport control and customs to attend an operational meeting in Kuala Lumpur on Jan. 5, 2000. Tawfiz al Atash, a top bin Laden lieutenant who masterminded the Oct. 12, 2000, attack on the USS Cole, was one of the men at that meeting.
* Senior al Qaeda operative Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi traveled to Iraq in 1998 to establish a relationship with Iraqi intelligence to obtain poisons and gases training. In December 2000, after the USS Cole bombing, two al Qaeda operatives went to Iraq for CBW-related training. Iraqi intelligence was "encouraged" to provide this training after the embassy and USS Cole bombings."
* Mohamed Atta, the alleged mastermind of the September 11 hijackings, met at least four times in Prague with Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim Samir al Ani, former Iraqi intelligence chief. During one of those meetings, al Ani ordered his finance officer to issue Atta funds from Iraqi Intelligence Service financial holdings in the Prague office.

Interestingly, the rest of the national news media has been strangely silent about this memo and Hayes article, even though there as yet has been no serious challenge to the memo's authenticity. Several Senate Intelligence Committee members from both sides of the aisle have complete access to the memo, and are privy to all the information Hayes used to write his article. Since the memo is classified, the committee members can't disseminate its contents to the public, but they can take a public stance supporting the essential truth of the information reported by Hayes. They can reassure the general public that this information is accurate, and that President Bush has been on top of the situation from the beginning.

And this, of course, points to why the national media has been so strangely quiet. Since nearly all of the nation's news reporting outlets are demonstrably left of center, and since most journalists clearly support the Democrats, any heavy reporting of this information would damage most leading Democrats' credibility, causing President Bush to ride even higher in the polls than he already is.

Robert G. Williscroft is a DefenseWatch Senior Editor. He can be reached at defensewatch@argee.net. ©2003 DefenseWatch. All opinions expressed in this article are the author's and do not necessarily reflect those of Military.com.

[puddy]

Thank you, Grasshopper (aka Yippie9)

(The enemy of my enemy is my friend.)

[grateful]

I don't understand why the left doesn't see the Bin Laden-Hussein connection. It is difficult to discern though.

As for Ashcroft, I'm disappointed that he's moving on. But, I'm sure he has gone through an arduous 4 years. I think Pataki is alright. We need someone whom won't budge in the Attorney General position now more than ever.

Yippies Luv - Not really. All I want a president to do is provide a strong armed military and to continue to on with the moral foundation we have brought forth by the Constitution.